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Discussion: Caroline Survives Without Her Memories... Even if Echo Doesn't Know It
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runa27 |
20. RE: Caroline Survives Without Her Memories... Even if Echo Doesn't Know It
May 20 2009, 5:01 PM EDT
"Sorry, if I'm so out of place right now, But it just hit me shouldn't Boyd be going against Sierra's reason for being in the Dollhouse? He seems to follow the rule that these people are agreeing to being there. So why didn't Boyd totally object to this? He says this in needs "Sierra needed to confront the man that took away her power" so I'm pretty sure he knows why/how she's there. "...I thought the implication was that he had found out only in that same episode, though. Didn't they frame with in a "ok so I understand that blah blah blah but...", which suggests that it was new info for him. Hmm. It does beg the question though. Maybe he's in the same deluded boat as DeWitt; telling himself that because she can't remember, she's not suffering anymore? I do think that Boyd is one of the people most likely to Heel Face Turn though. He seems to have a little too much paternal emotion towards Echo to be able to dehumanize her like he'd need to to be able to to continue to justify working for the Dollhouse. Keep in mind that in Briar Rose though, he tells Paul i's pointless to rescue Echo because "they'll just find her again". So maybe it's more of a case of what Edmund Burke described: ""All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing". It's also possible that he's ex-military, in which case, maybe he's used to convincing himself to "don't ask, just follow orders"? Makes me more and more curious though as to how the hell he even got to working for them anyway... Do you find this valuable? |
noobloser |
21. RE: Caroline Survives Without Her Memories... Even if Echo Doesn't Know It
May 20 2009, 5:03 PM EDT
"Sorry, if I'm so out of place right now, But it just hit me shouldn't Boyd be going against Sierra's reason for being in the Dollhouse? He seems to follow the rule that these people are agreeing to being there. So why didn't Boyd totally object to this? He says this in needs "Sierra needed to confront the man that took away her power" so I'm pretty sure he knows why/how she's there. "Boyd is probably against Sierra's enslavement. It's all about being captured in this show, Dolls and employees and occasional crusaders (aka Paul). Would Boyd like to help? Yes. Can he actually do something? Not without risking his life. Do you find this valuable? |
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runa27 |
22. RE: Caroline Survives Without Her Memories... Even if Echo Doesn't Know It
May 20 2009, 5:16 PM EDT
"Boyd is probably against Sierra's enslavement. It's all about being captured in this show, Dolls and employees and occasional crusaders (aka Paul). Would Boyd like to help? Yes. Can he actually do something? Not without risking his life."This is absolutely true... though it has the ring of an excuse for inaction, he may actually be right when he says that rescuing an active by just removing them from the Dollhouse is pointless, because... well, they can come after them. With as many as several dozen people programmed with perfect ninja/detective skills, no less. That's probably the most terrifying thing about the Dollhouse, come to think of it; the fact that if you cross them, you may never be safe again, because they could be ANYWHERE, everywhere, anytime. Even in your new girlfriend from next door or a random informant. And even without taking the actives into account, there's a simple matter of there being no one to turn to - since almost everyone with any power to do anything whatsoever about the Dollhouse either thinks the very idea of one is ludicrous, or is on the side of the Dollhouse. Not to mention we already know they have spy tech apparently light years beyond anyone else, and can have eyes and ears pretty much anywhere... ...which only goes to show that if the Dollhouse is ever taken down, it's going to almost HAVE to come from the inside somehow. Because it's too protected on the outside, but have proof of one and strong evidence for at least one other spy in it... it's the inside that's the vulnerable point. Hmm. Do you find this valuable? |
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noobloser |
23. RE: Caroline Survives Without Her Memories... Even if Echo Doesn't Know It
May 20 2009, 10:11 PM EDT
"Sadly, there is evidence of a prominent matriarchy in ancient, even neolithic times (some cool info on it in that book I mentioned earlier, as well as a bit of similar info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%87atalh%C3%B6y%C3%BCk ).Silly me, I forgot about those! I didn't remember them until your comment! Hah, maybe I haven't been around mythology in a while...! Nah, but that makes it all the more harder for me to pin down Joss's exact feelings. Maybe Echo is a combination of all of these different goddesses! I don't know, it needs a little more thinking on my part. My brain is kind of in the off mode right now. Do you find this valuable? |
SilentEchoes |
24. RE: Caroline Survives Without Her Memories... Even if Echo Doesn't Know It
May 21 2009, 12:37 AM EDT
From Boyd's POV I think he should still believe in Adelle and her motives so I'd think there should have been a discussion between the two about Pyria(however you spell it)/Sierra . I feel it's slightly out of character for him to not at least make Adelle listen to reason. Then again maybe it's out of Adelle's power, the man who put Sierra in there did pull a lot of strings and paid for her to be in there, so maybe he dealt with the higher ups. We don't know how far it extends past Adelle as far as I've seen.Boyd seems "alright" with the fact they volunteered but he doesn't seem cool with the fact of forcing them in. I wonder if he knows how Echo/Caroline was chased and forced into a contract. Well, actually who knows. I don't believe we know the full details of Caroline's enslavement. I believe we still have more twist and turns to come. Moar flashbacks pls! haha. Do you find this valuable? |
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runa27 |
25. RE: Caroline Survives Without Her Memories... Even if Echo Doesn't Know It
May 22 2009, 12:09 AM EDT
"Silly me, I forgot about those! I didn't remember them until your comment! Hah, maybe I haven't been around mythology in a while...! Nah, but that makes it all the more harder for me to pin down Joss's exact feelings. Maybe Echo is a combination of all of these different goddesses! I don't know, it needs a little more thinking on my part. My brain is kind of in the off mode right now."Eh, don't feel too bad. :) I'm a total mythology and folklore nerd myself, but most of the popular stuff has been handed down by the more recent, patriarchal cultures (such as the Athenians, etc.), and the most popular religions at current (Judeo-Christian, Islam, Hinduism) are largely patriarchal in nature as well. So we see it through that lens. I wouldn't have known about a lot of the really cool stuff before college though; that's when I got access to the kind of libraries and classes where those books are available. ;) I had never heard of Catal Huyuk before I read "Before The Flood" for instance, and that's one of those books that really synthesizes a lot of old and new research on this stuff. Since Joss is both well-read and a feminist though, it would not surprise me if he had been more aware of this stuff and wanting to use it once in it while, if only as a moderate influence or allusion in his work. Do you find this valuable? |
